{"id":1217,"date":"2026-09-27T19:20:09","date_gmt":"2026-09-27T19:20:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/?p=1217"},"modified":"2026-09-27T19:36:35","modified_gmt":"2026-09-27T19:36:35","slug":"hi-gem-a-few-months-ago-i-had-the-post-can-a-funder-from-vietnam-send-bitcoin-to-a-terrorist-in-south-america-and-you-said-that-it-was-possible-but-the-off-ramp-is-guarded-later-i-heard-from-ban","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/?p=1217","title":{"rendered":"Hi Gem, a few months ago I had the post &#171;can a funder from vietnam send Bitcoin to a terrorist in South America&#187; and you said that it was possible but the off-ramp is guarded. Later I heard from bankers, that with normal money it is also possible to send from Vietnam to South America. Could you elaborate if bitcoin is more dangerous or not?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Whether Bitcoin or traditional fiat bank transfers (via networks like SWIFT) pose a greater threat for illicit cross-border transfers\u2014such as moving funds from Vietnam to a designated group in South America\u2014depends on <strong>which phase of the transaction<\/strong> is being evaluated.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Both financial systems can be exploited, but they operate on fundamentally different friction points, control architectures, and monitoring capabilities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Comparison Matrix: Fiat (Banking\/SWIFT) vs. Bitcoin<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-table\"><table class=\"has-fixed-layout\"><thead><tr><th>Parameter<\/th><th>Traditional Fiat (Banking \/ SWIFT)<\/th><th>Bitcoin (On-Chain \/ P2P)<\/th><\/tr><\/thead><tbody><tr><td><strong>Settlement &amp; Speed<\/strong><\/td><td>High friction (2\u20135 business days), manual reviews possible.<\/td><td>Low friction (minutes to hours), 24\/7 autonomous settlement.<\/td><\/tr><tr><td><strong>Pre-Transaction Control<\/strong><\/td><td><strong>Gatekeeper \/ Interception model.<\/strong> Payments can be paused, frozen, or rejected mid-flight.<\/td><td><strong>Permissionless model.<\/strong> Transactions cannot be blocked mid-flight by any authority once broadcast.<\/td><\/tr><tr><td><strong>Identity &amp; KYC<\/strong><\/td><td>Identity is verified at the front end; strict Know-Your-Customer (KYC) required for accounts.<\/td><td>Pseudonymous on-chain; addresses are public, but real-world identity links depend on off-ramps.<\/td><\/tr><tr><td><strong>Post-Transaction Auditability<\/strong><\/td><td>Private\/fragmented ledger across multiple banks. Requires international legal requests (MLATs) to trace.<\/td><td><strong>Public, immutable ledger.<\/strong> Global intelligence agencies and blockchain analytics can permanently trace funds.<\/td><\/tr><\/tbody><\/table><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Why Fiat Can Be Used (The Bank Scenario)<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The bankers are correct that money <em>can<\/em> move from Vietnam to South America through correspondent banking, but it faces multi-layered &#171;pre-transaction&#187; filters:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"1\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Correspondent Banks &amp; Intermediaries:<\/strong> A wire from a local bank in Vietnam to South America rarely goes directly. It passes through major correspondent clearing banks (often in the US or Europe for USD\/EUR settlement).<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>SWIFT &amp; Automated Sanctions Screening:<\/strong> Every message transmitted via SWIFT contains structured originator, beneficiary, and bank routing details. Screening tools automatically check names, addresses, and BICs against designated sanctions lists (e.g., OFAC, UN, EU lists) in real time before releasing funds. Binderr<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Trade-Based Money Laundering (TBML) &amp; Informal Systems:<\/strong> When illicit fiat moves successfully, actors rarely use simple wire transfers labelled for illegal activities. Instead, they bypass banking filters using <strong>Hawala \/ informal value transfer systems (IVTS)<\/strong> or <strong>Trade-Based Money Laundering<\/strong> (over-invoicing\/under-invoicing real goods like agricultural products or electronics between import\/export shell companies).<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Why Bitcoin is Different: &#171;Unstoppable Flow&#187; vs. &#171;Permanent Paper Trail&#187;<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Evaluating whether Bitcoin is &#171;more dangerous&#187; requires distinguishing between <strong>moving the funds<\/strong> and <strong>cashing out<\/strong>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">1. Why Bitcoin is <em>More<\/em> Dangerous in the Short Term (Transmission)<\/h4>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>No Centralized Interception:<\/strong> If a sender in Vietnam sends BTC directly from a non-custodial wallet to a recipient&#8217;s non-custodial wallet in South America, <strong>no bank, government, or central coordinator can stop, freeze, or reject that transaction mid-flight<\/strong>.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Bypassing Sanctions Screening:<\/strong> Unlike SWIFT, which automatically screens every message before execution, the Bitcoin network nodes process any transaction with valid cryptographic signatures, regardless of sender or receiver identities.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">2. Why Bitcoin is <em>Less<\/em> Dangerous in the Long Term (Detection &amp; Enforcement)<\/h4>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>The Permanent Public Record:<\/strong> Every Bitcoin transaction is recorded on a permanent, immutable public ledger. Blockchain analytics platforms (like Chainalysis, Elliptic, or TRM Labs) map wallet clusters over time. Once an address is associated with a illicit node or suspect entity, its entire transaction history\u2014past and future\u2014becomes visible to global law enforcement.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>The Off-Ramp Chokepoint &amp; Travel Rule:<\/strong> Cashing out Bitcoin into local fiat (VND, COP, BRL, etc.) to purchase physical goods or pay personnel usually requires a Virtual Asset Service Provider (VASP) or local exchange. Under international FATF Recommendation 16 (the &#171;Travel Rule&#187;), crypto exchanges globally are required to collect and share originator\/beneficiary information for transfers. Local exchanges that fail to comply face regulatory shutdown or losing access to local banking rails. Zyphe<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Alternative Cash-Out Methods:<\/strong> To avoid regulated exchanges, illicit actors rely on Peer-to-Peer (P2P) cash networks, OTC (Over-The-Counter) brokers, or privacy-enhancing assets (like Monero or coin-joining services). However, these methods carry high operational friction, liquidity limits, and increased risk of law enforcement sting operations.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Summary Verdict<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Fiat is harder to transmit undetected through formal banking rails<\/strong>, because central intermediaries active in SWIFT act as preventative gatekeepers. When fiat is used for terrorism, it typically relies on shell corporations, trade manipulation, or informal cash brokers.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Bitcoin is far easier to transfer across borders without prior permission<\/strong>, but it leaves an uneraseable, globally searchable audit trail that exposes the network over time once any part of the chain touches a identified real-world identity or regulated off-ramp.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So analyzing this, I think it has majorly to do with how &#8218;clean&#8216; a person is. For instance this is a South American charity organisation, and I don&#8217;t think it is to difficult to send fiat money there:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/sai.ngo\/donation\">https:\/\/sai.ngo\/donation<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And I suppose sending fiat to a clean South American person would also not be blocked.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then with Bitcoin the off-ramp is guarded, which also has to do with how clean a person is. And then there is the entire registration on the Blockchain that would expose and connect any persons that have been sent to later.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">My conclusion now, however I will research more, is that there is not any more danger with Bitcoin, depending on how the off-ramp is guarded. And I think, altough Bitcoin moves instantaniously, I think it majorly has to do with how clean a person is in the system, because with a few days patience, it is also possible with Fiat.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Reint Jelger Baarda<\/p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Another question about this:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Reint Jelger: Gem, just wondering you say a bank transfer from vietnam to south america could take 5 days, but what about this, if someone would set up a charity, and someone would donate, does that money travel instantaniously? For instance with this one: https:\/\/sai.ngo\/donation<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Even when a donor clicks &#171;Donate Now&#187; on a charity website and receives an instant confirmation receipt, <strong>the actual cross-border money movement does not happen instantaneously.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Looking at the specific example of <strong>South American Initiative (SAI)<\/strong>: despite operating in South America, SAI is legally a US-registered 501(c)(3) tax-exempt nonprofit headquartered in Florida, USA. When someone donates via their website using a credit card, debit card, or platform like PayPal\/Stripe, the operation consists of two separate phases: <strong>Authorizing the Front-End<\/strong> and <strong>Settling the Back-End<\/strong>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Phase 1: Front-End Authorization (Instant)<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When a donation is processed through a online credit card form:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"1\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Card Authorization (1\u20133 Seconds):<\/strong> The payment gateway (e.g., Stripe) contacts the donor&#8217;s bank in Vietnam. The bank reserves the funds, verifies security details (like 3D Secure), and confirms the donor has enough balance.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Instant Web Confirmation:<\/strong> The charity&#8217;s web page instantly shows &#171;Thank You!&#187; because the payment gateway <em>guarantees<\/em> that the donor&#8217;s bank approved the transaction.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">To the donor, the payment feels immediate. However, <strong>no money has actually moved across borders yet.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Phase 2: Back-End Interbank Settlement (Days)<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What happens behind the scenes follows the traditional banking infrastructure:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<pre class=\"wp-block-code\"><code>&#91;Donor in Vietnam] \u2500\u2500(Card Network: Visa\/MC)\u2500\u2500&gt; &#91;Payment Processor in USA] \u2500\u2500(ACH \/ Fedwire)\u2500\u2500&gt; &#91;Charity Bank Account in USA] \u2500\u2500(Swift \/ Interbank Wire)\u2500\u2500&gt; &#91;Ground Operations in South America]\n<\/code><\/pre>\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"1\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Merchant Clearing &amp; Payouts (1\u20133 Business Days):<\/strong> The payment processor batches daily credit card transactions and sends them through international card network clearinghouses (Visa\/Mastercard). The funds are settled into the charity\u2019s primary bank account in the United States.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>International Wire to South America (1\u20135 Business Days):<\/strong> For SAI to spend those funds on the ground (buying food, medicine, or supplies in Venezuela\/Colombia), the US entity must wire funds from its US bank account to local bank accounts or local vendors in South America via SWIFT.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Local Banking &amp; FX Controls:<\/strong> Once the wire arrives in South America, local banks check compliance and convert USD into local currency (or clear approved USD balances), which adds another delay\u2014especially in countries with strict foreign currency controls like Venezuela.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Front-End Illusion vs. Back-End Reality<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-table\"><table class=\"has-fixed-layout\"><thead><tr><th>Operational Step<\/th><th>Front-End Online Donation<\/th><th>Behind-the-Scenes Interbank Movement<\/th><\/tr><\/thead><tbody><tr><td><strong>Donor Experience<\/strong><\/td><td>Credit card\/PayPal authorization takes <strong>1\u20133 seconds<\/strong>.<\/td><td>Money sits in intermediary clearing accounts for <strong>2\u20135 business days<\/strong>.<\/td><\/tr><tr><td><strong>Jurisdiction<\/strong><\/td><td>The donor pays an online merchant gateway.<\/td><td>Funds clear from a bank in Vietnam, through US correspondent clearing banks, to South America.<\/td><\/tr><tr><td><strong>Compliance &amp; Vetting<\/strong><\/td><td>Automated credit card fraud detection (e.g., CVV check, anti-fraud AI).<\/td><td>Anti-Money Laundering (AML) and sanctions screening occur when the charity\u2019s bank wires large lump sums internationally.<\/td><\/tr><\/tbody><\/table><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Summary<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">An online donation form creates <strong>credit-risk authorization in seconds<\/strong>, but the <strong>underlying cash settlement still takes days<\/strong>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because large charities like SAI are structured as legal entities in major financial hubs (such as the US), donations first route into a centralized Western bank account before being wired in bulk via traditional SWIFT and correspondent banking channels to local operations on the ground.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Whether Bitcoin or traditional fiat bank transfers (via networks like SWIFT) pose a greater threat for illicit cross-border transfers\u2014such as moving funds from Vietnam to a designated group in South America\u2014depends on which phase of the transaction is being evaluated. &hellip; <a href=\"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/?p=1217\">Weiterlesen <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1217","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1217","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=1217"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1217\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1221,"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1217\/revisions\/1221"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=1217"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=1217"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=1217"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}