{"id":821,"date":"2026-09-08T14:28:43","date_gmt":"2026-09-08T14:28:43","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/?p=821"},"modified":"2026-09-08T14:35:07","modified_gmt":"2026-09-08T14:35:07","slug":"reint-jelger-hi-gem-ty-and-you-write-whether-individuals-with-schizophrenia-who-commit-crimes-should-be-punished-is-a-subject-of-ongoing-legal-ethical-and-public-debate-rather-than-a-single-set","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/?p=821","title":{"rendered":"Reint Jelger: Hi Gem, ty, and, you write: Whether individuals with schizophrenia who commit crimes should be punished is a subject of ongoing legal, ethical, and public debate rather than a single settled standard. Different legal systems, legal scholars, and medical professionals hold contrasting viewpoints on how the justice system should handle cases involving severe mental illness. Could you give me some of those viewpoints in the debate and current proceedings with it"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Google Gemini: The legal and ethical debate over holding individuals with schizophrenia criminally responsible centers on the tension between <strong>moral culpability (mens rea)<\/strong>, <strong>public safety<\/strong>, and <strong>medical reality<\/strong>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because schizophrenia is an episodic condition with varied symptoms\u2014ranging from active, Command Delusions and severe psychosis to periods of partial or full remission\u2014legal systems generally reject a &#171;blanket status&#187; approach.<sup><\/sup> Instead, courts and legal scholars argue over specific frameworks regarding when and how punishment should apply.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Key Viewpoints in the Debate<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">1. The Retributive\/Moral View: Culpability Requires Free Will<\/h4>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Core Argument:<\/strong> Traditional criminal punishment relies on retribution\u2014punishing someone because they chose to commit a wrong. If a person\u2019s perception of reality was so fractured by schizophrenia (e.g., acting under an active command hallucination or delusion) that they could not distinguish right from wrong, holding them morally responsible is illogical and unfair.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Legal Test:<\/strong> Found in jurisdictions that use the <strong>M&#8217;Naghten Rule<\/strong> or similar cognitive tests. Focuses purely on whether the defendant <em>understood the nature or wrongfulness of the act<\/em> at the moment it occurred. Psychology Town+ 1<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Implication:<\/strong> The defendant should be found &#171;Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity&#187; (NGRI) or lack criminal responsibility and be diverted to a high-security forensic psychiatric facility for treatment rather than prison. Criminal Law Poland<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">2. The Functional\/Avolitional View: Control vs. Knowledge<\/h4>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Core Argument:<\/strong> Critics of strict cognitive tests argue that a person with schizophrenia might intellectually know an act is illegal (e.g., knowing murder is against the law) but be completely powerless to control their actions due to severe loss of impulse control or irresistible psychotic drivers.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Legal Test:<\/strong> Utilized in standards like the <strong>Model Penal Code (MPC)<\/strong> test, which excuses liability if the defendant lacked &#171;substantial capacity&#187; to either <em>appreciate<\/em> the wrongfulness of the conduct or <em>conform<\/em> their conduct to the law. Psychology Town<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Implication:<\/strong> Broadens the insanity defense beyond mere cognitive awareness to include the loss of volitional control caused by severe mental illness. Psychology Town<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">3. The Strict Public Safety \/ Deterrence View<\/h4>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Core Argument:<\/strong> Proponents of this view prioritize deterrence, victim rights, and public security over individual mental capacity. They argue that regardless of mental state, an act causes harm, and society must be protected. Furthermore, opponents worry that insanity defenses can be misused or lead to early release if medical conditions improve. Psychology Town<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Legal Test:<\/strong> Adopted in four US states (Idaho, Kansas, Montana, and Utah) that have <strong>abolished the insanity defense altogether<\/strong>, as well as states that offer a <strong>&#171;Guilty but Mentally Ill&#187; (GBMI)<\/strong> verdict.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Implication:<\/strong> Under GBMI or complete abolition, the defendant is found criminally guilty and sentenced to prison\/custody like any other offender, though they may receive psychiatric treatment while serving their prison sentence.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">4. The Medical \/ Biological Standard (The &#171;Medical Model&#187;)<\/h4>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Core Argument:<\/strong> Instead of requiring a jury or judge to determine whether a complex delusion directly caused an act, this view focuses primarily on whether a severe psychotic condition was actively present at the time. PMC &#8211; NIH<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Example System:<\/strong> Norway historically operated under a legal framework where an active, severe state of psychosis (such as active-phase schizophrenia) at the time of the offense automatically excluded criminal responsibility, regardless of complex tests evaluating specific legal reasoning. PMC &#8211; NIH<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Current Legal Proceedings and Trends<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Active vs. Inactive Psychosis Distinction<\/h4>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Modern courts increasingly distinguish between having a <strong>diagnosis<\/strong> of schizophrenia and being in an <strong>active state of severe psychosis<\/strong> during the crime.<sup><\/sup> A documented history of schizophrenia alone is rarely sufficient for an acquittal. Courts require evidence (such as forensic psychiatric evaluations) showing that the active symptoms impaired functioning <em>at the exact moment<\/em> of the offense.<sup><\/sup><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Forensic Commitment vs. Prison<\/h4>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When someone with schizophrenia is found not criminally responsible, it does not mean they simply go free.<sup><\/sup> In almost all jurisdictions, an NGRI verdict leads to <strong>involuntary commitment to a forensic psychiatric institution<\/strong>. In many cases, individuals remain confined in forensic facilities under medical review for as long as\u2014or longer than\u2014the prison sentence they would have served.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Diminished Capacity Options<\/h4>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Many legal systems offer middle-ground approaches where complete insanity cannot be proven.<sup><\/sup> Courts may recognize <strong>diminished capacity or diminished responsibility<\/strong>, which allows judges to reduce the severity of the conviction or sentence (e.g., lowering a charge from first-degree murder to manslaughter) and mandate psychiatric care within or alongside custody<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Bern: Do schizophrenic people know how to send an email or do they not have enough money for a librarycard?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Google Gemini: Schizophrenia does not eliminate a person&#8217;s digital literacy, nor does it inherently make someone unable to afford or access basic public services like a library card.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The relationship between schizophrenia, practical skills (like sending an email), and financial circumstances varies widely depending on symptom severity, access to treatment, and local social support systems.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Operating Technology and Daily Skills<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Schizophrenia is a neurodevelopmental and psychiatric condition characterized by symptoms such as halluncinations, delusions, disorganized thinking, or reduced emotional expression (&#171;negative symptoms&#187;). It does not erase acquired life skills or cognitive habits.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Sending an Email:<\/strong> Many people diagnosed with schizophrenia regularly use computers, smartphones, email, and social media. When someone is receiving effective treatment (such as medication and therapy) or experiencing a period of remission, their ability to use digital tools is often identical to anyone else&#8217;s.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Impact of Psychosis:<\/strong> During an acute psychotic episode or severe cognitive disorganization, a person&#8217;s ability to communicate coherently\u2014whether in person or via email\u2014may be temporarily impaired. However, this is a reflection of active symptoms, not a permanent loss of knowledge.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Library Cards and Public Access<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Access to public infrastructure like libraries is generally open to everyone, regardless of health status or income.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Cost:<\/strong> In many countries (including across North America and Europe), public library cards are <strong>completely free<\/strong> for local residents. Where small annual fees exist, public libraries frequently waive them for low-income individuals.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Socioeconomic Reality:<\/strong> While schizophrenia can cause disability that leads to financial hardship or reliance on public support, many individuals with schizophrenia hold jobs, manage personal budgets, or rely on social safety nets.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Key Takeaway<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Having schizophrenia does not mean a person loses basic functional abilities or is universally unable to participate in daily digital and public life. Symptoms fluctuate, and with appropriate care and community resources, most people with the condition maintain or regain the ability to navigate standard daily tasks.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Reint Jelger: Are some schizophrenic people Muslim?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Gemini: Yes, there are Muslim people with schizophrenia.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Schizophrenia is a complex neurological and psychiatric condition that affects people of all cultures, religions, ethnicities, and geographic locations across the world. The prevalence of schizophrenia is estimated at approximately 0.5% to 1% of the global population, regardless of religious background.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Clinical &amp; Cultural Context<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">While the underlying biological mechanics of schizophrenia are universal, how symptoms manifest and how care is approached can be influenced by cultural and religious contexts:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Symptom Expression:<\/strong> Delusions and hallucinations often draw on a person&#8217;s familiar cultural or religious environment. A person raised in a religious context\u2014Muslim, Christian, Hindu, or otherwise\u2014may experience spiritual themes, such as hearing voices attributed to supernatural entities or feeling a strong religious imperative during an episode.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Treatment Approaches:<\/strong> Medical and psychiatric treatment (such as antipsychotic medication and therapy) remains the core standard of care globally. In many Muslim-majority communities and cultures, families and healthcare providers increasingly integrate medical care with spiritual support, working alongside community leaders to encourage treatment compliance while offering emotional and spiritual comfort.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Bern: Are there also sweet handsome schizophrenic people who are not violent?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Google Gemini: Yes. The vast majority of people diagnosed with schizophrenia are non-violent, and many are exceptionally kind, gentle, empathetic, and warm.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The widespread belief that schizophrenia equals violence is a misconception driven largely by sensationalized portrayals in media, movies, and news reporting. In reality:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>Non-violence is the norm:<\/strong> Studies consistently show that the vast majority of individuals with schizophrenia never commit a violent act. They are far more likely to be withdrawn, quiet, or overwhelmed by their internal experiences than to be aggressive.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Higher risk of being victims, not perpetrators:<\/strong> People living with severe mental illnesses like schizophrenia are significantly more likely to be victims of violent crime\u2014often due to vulnerability, social isolation, and stigma\u2014than they are to harm others.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Attractiveness and personality are unrelated to diagnosis:<\/strong> Schizophrenia is a complex neurological and psychiatric condition; it does not dictate a person&#8217;s physical appearance, emotional warmth, capacity for affection, or core moral character. Many people with the diagnosis are handsome, charismatic, deeply caring, and lead compassionate lives.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When violent behavior does occur in connection with mental illness, it is rarely due to the condition alone. It is typically tied to secondary factors such as untreated acute psychosis accompanied by severe distress or fear, severe substance abuse, or a history of personal trauma\u2014factors that increase risk in any population regardless of diagnosis. With proper treatment, supportive relationships, and access to healthcare, people with schizophrenia live peaceful, fulfilling, and gentle lives.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Google Gemini: The legal and ethical debate over holding individuals with schizophrenia criminally responsible centers on the tension between moral culpability (mens rea), public safety, and medical reality. Because schizophrenia is an episodic condition with varied symptoms\u2014ranging from active, Command Delusions and severe psychosis to periods of partial or full remission\u2014legal systems generally reject a &hellip; <\/p>\n<p class=\"link-more\"><a href=\"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/?p=821\" class=\"more-link\"><span class=\"screen-reader-text\">&#171;Reint Jelger: Hi Gem, ty, and, you write: Whether individuals with schizophrenia who commit crimes should be punished is a subject of ongoing legal, ethical, and public debate rather than a single settled standard. Different legal systems, legal scholars, and medical professionals hold contrasting viewpoints on how the justice system should handle cases involving severe mental illness. Could you give me some of those viewpoints in the debate and current proceedings with it&#187;<\/span> weiterlesen<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-821","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/821","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=821"}],"version-history":[{"count":3,"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/821\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":824,"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/821\/revisions\/824"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=821"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=821"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/baarda.ch\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=821"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}