Gemini: Whether an asset makes someone a «winner» or a «loser» depends entirely on what problem they are trying to solve—each system serves fundamentally different economic purposes, and none is immune to trade-offs.

The Euro (EUR)

• Design & Purpose: A sovereign, centralized currency managed by the European Central Bank (ECB) to ensure monetary stability and facilitate trade across 20 European Union nations.
• Strengths («Winning»): Provides low friction for international commerce within the Eurozone, predictable legal status, and deep, highly regulated credit markets backed by sovereign economies.
• Trade-Offs («Losing»): Holders bear the gradual loss of purchasing power through inflation, and the currency is tied to political and fiscal coordination across diverse European member states.

The US Dollar (USD)

• Design & Purpose: The premier global reserve currency and dominant medium of exchange for international trade, energy markets (petrodollars), and foreign debt settlement.
• Strengths («Winning»): Benefits from unparalleled liquidity, global institutional trust, deep Treasury markets, and the «exorbitant privilege» of global demand for dollars.
• Trade-Offs («Losing»): Subject to supply expansion by the Federal Reserve and long-term purchasing power depreciation via domestic monetary policy.

Bitcoin (BTC)

• Design & Purpose: A decentralized, peer-to-peer digital monetary network with a hard cap of 21 million units, operating without a central authority or intermediary.
• Strengths («Winning»): Offers absolute programmatic scarcity, immunity to policy-driven debasement, permissionless ownership, and global borderless settlement.
• Trade-Offs («Losing»): High short-to-medium-term price volatility, lack of sovereign backing or legal tender status in most jurisdictions, and responsibility on individual holders for self-custody and security.

A picture showing the five biggest crypto exchanges world wide (the buildings are a representation, those are not actual buildings of the exchanges).

Perspective Comparison

No single monetary tool dominates every dimension. Fiat currencies excel at medium-of-exchange liquidity and immediate price stability, while fixed-supply digital assets focus on long-term wealth preservation against currency debasement.

Euro Area Money Supply Breakdown (August 2026)

• M0 (Base Money): ~3.95 trillion EUR (includes physical banknotes in circulation and commercial bank reserves held with the Eurosystem).
• M1 (Narrow Money): ~11.29 trillion EUR (M0 plus overnight/checking deposits).
• M2 (Intermediate Money): ~16.45 trillion EUR (M1 plus short-term savings deposits with agreed maturity up to two years or redeemable up to three months).
• M3 (Broad Money): ~17.65 trillion EUR (M2 plus marketable instruments like repurchase agreements, money market fund shares, and debt securities up to two years).
• M4: Official central banks like the European Central Bank do not officially track or publish an «M4» metric, as M3 is considered the broadest standard measure of liquidity for the Eurozone. (In broader private economic tracking, M4 usually adds even wider liquid assets like commercial paper or treasury bills, but it is rarely standardized or officially reported for the euro).

As of August 2026, the broad money supply (M2) of the United States Dollar is approximately $23.34 trillion ($23,342,800 million USD).

Just like with the Euro, the Federal Reserve calculates the USD money supply using specific structural tiers based on how liquid the money is.

US Dollar Money Supply Breakdown (August 2026)

• M0 / Monetary Base: ~$5.41 trillion. This is the base level of money and includes $2.47 trillion of physical currency in circulation plus roughly $3.05 trillion in commercial bank reserve balances held electronically at Federal Reserve banks.
• M1 (Narrow Money): ~$19.99 trillion. This covers the most highly liquid forms of money. It includes physical cash in circulation outside of banks plus immediately checkable/demand deposits and standard retail savings accounts. (Note: In May 2020, the Federal Reserve changed its definition of M1 to include regular savings accounts, which is why the US M1 figure is exceptionally high relative to its M2 compared to other global currencies).
• M2 (Broad Money): ~$23.34 trillion. This is the headline metric economists watch for US liquidity. It includes everything in M1 plus small-denomination time deposits (CDs under $100,000) and retail money market mutual fund shares.
• M3: Discontinued / Not Officially Tracked. The Federal Reserve Board ceased tracking and publishing M3 data in March 2006. The Fed determined that tracking institutional money market funds and large long-term CDs did not provide enough additional useful economic insight beyond M2 to justify the cost of collecting the data. Private research firms still estimate US M3 to be roughly $28 to $29 trillion.

If I divide the estimate of M3 of the UD Dollar by the market cap of Bitcoin it turns out that the US Dollar is a staggering 17 times bigger then Bitcoin

Your math is incredibly accurate. If you divide the private estimate for the US Dollar M3 money supply (roughly $28.5 trillion) by the current Bitcoin market cap (approximately $1.69 trillion, with Bitcoin trading around $84,000), the US Dollar is indeed roughly 17 times larger than Bitcoin.

This comparison highlights a few fascinating economic perspectives:

1. The Liquidity Gap

While Bitcoin is often referred to as «digital gold,» the sheer volume of global commerce backed by the US Dollar requires massive liquid transactional backing. The fact that the entire value of all Bitcoins ever mined is only equal to about 6% of the broadest US money supply shows how much room crypto has to grow if it ever intends to challenge sovereign fiat currency as a primary medium of exchange.

2. M1 vs. Bitcoin

If you narrow the lens to M1 (Narrow Money)—which consists of physical cash and immediately spendable checking accounts (about $19.99 trillion)—the ratio shrinks. The liquid, «ready-to-spend» US money supply is only about 12 times larger than Bitcoin’s total market cap.

3. Bitcoin vs. the Monetary Base (M0)

The closest institutional definition to Bitcoin’s structural design is M0 / The Monetary Base (physical cash plus commercial bank reserves held at the Fed), which sits at $5.41 trillion. When comparing Bitcoin directly to the bedrock foundation of the US banking system, the US dollar is only about 3.2 times larger.

Is it true that at all train ticket machines in Switzerland it is possible to buy Bitcoin for people?

Yes, it is largely true—all standard ticket machines operated by Swiss Federal Railways (SBB/CFF/FFS) allow people to purchase Bitcoin. SBB launched this service in late 2016 across its national network.

However, there are a few important conditions and limitations to keep in mind:

How SBB’s Native Bitcoin Purchase Works

1. Selection: On the ticket machine display, navigate to Prepaid / Money transfers → Crypto Paper Wallet and select Bitcoin.
2. Limits: You can purchase between CHF 20 and CHF 500 per transaction.
3. Swiss Mobile Requirement: You must enter a valid mobile phone number from a Swiss mobile provider to receive a security code (mTAN) via SMS.
4. Output: The machine prints a physical Crypto Paper Wallet containing your keys rather than sending Bitcoin directly to an external digital wallet address.
5. Fees: SBB/SweePay charges relatively high fees for direct paper wallet purchases (typically 6% to 14% depending on the amount).

Alternative Method (Swiss QR-Bills)

If you don’t have a Swiss phone number or want to send funds directly to an existing crypto wallet, third-party services like Mt Pelerin allow you to generate a Swiss QR-bill online. You can scan and pay this QR-bill in cash (CHF or EUR) at any SBB ticket machine, which then routes the Bitcoin directly to your personal wallet address.

Key Clarifications

• Buying Tickets: You cannot use Bitcoin to buy train tickets at the machine; SBB only uses the machines as a distribution/vending channel for crypto.
• Private Regional Rail Lines: This applies to SBB/CFF/FFS network machines; smaller regional private transport networks may use different vending hardware that does not support the service.

This is a picture explaining the services of BINANCE:

Gemini: Skanska AB is a prominent choice. Founded in 1887, it is one of the world’s largest construction and project development multinationals, headquartered in Stockholm, Sweden.

Other notable options include:

• Peab AB: Known as «the Nordic Community Builder,» focused heavily on large-scale infrastructure, civil engineering, and regional construction across the Nordics. Neuroject
• NCC AB (Nordic Construction Company): A major player specializing in complex commercial property development, infrastructure, and sustainable building solutions. Neuroject
• JM AB: One of the leading developers and builders of residential housing in Sweden and the Nordic region. CompanyData

Reint Jelger: Like If I would want to have a skyscraper build in Luzern, could I use Skanska AB for that?

Gemini: Not directly in practice.

Technically, Skanska has the engineering capabilities and experience to construct high-rise buildings worldwide, but Switzerland is not one of their active geographical markets. Skanska concentrates its European operations primarily in Sweden, Norway, Finland, the UK, Poland, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia. They do not operate a local Swiss branch or hold a active construction presence in Lucerne.

If you were developing a skyscraper in Lucerne, you would typically hire major domestic Swiss general contractors or European construction giants active in Switzerland:

• Implenia AG: The largest construction and real estate services company in Switzerland, headquartered in Opfikon. They handle large-scale Swiss high-rise developments.
• Anliker AG: A prominent local builder rooted directly in the Lucerne/Central Switzerland region with massive civil engineering and building capacity.
• HRS Real Estate AG: A major Swiss general contractor specializing in complex, high-volume commercial and residential projects across Switzerland.
• Marti Holding AG: One of the top Swiss construction groups capable of executing large-scale structural projects.

Furthermore, building a skyscraper in Lucerne involves strict local zoning regulations, historic city protection laws, and height restrictions governed by the canton and municipality, making local Swiss contractors the standard choice for navigating the regional regulatory landscape.

Reint Jelger: Could you tell me about height restrictions in and around Luzern, because I want to build a 840 meter skyscraper in Luzern

Gemini: An 840-meter skyscraper (which would be taller than the Burj Khalifa at 828 m) faces significant regulatory, geographical, and legal hurdles in Lucerne.

Here is an overview of height restrictions and planning framework in and around Lucerne:

1. The Municipal Building and Zoning Regulations (BZO)

• Strict Zone Limits: The City of Lucerne and surrounding municipalities dictate maximum building heights via their Bau- und Zonenordnung (BZO). Standard urban residential zones (W2–W5) generally cap heights around 2 to 5 full storeys (roughly 7 to 16 meters).
• High-Rise Concept (Hochhausreglement): Lucerne has explicit high-rise concept plans (Hochhausleitbild). High-rise status generally applies to buildings exceeding 22 to 30 meters.
• Designated Clusters: Tall structures are strictly confined to specific development zones—typically around key transit hubs outside the historical core, such as Luzern South (Kriens/Mattenhof) or Rothenburg—and even in these areas, «high-rise» usually tops out around 60 to 88 meters.

2. Heritage Protection and Visual Landscape Standards

• Historic Preservation: The historic center of Lucerne (including the Chapel Bridge, Musegg Wall, and old town skyline) is strictly protected under municipal and cantonal heritage laws. High-rise developments cannot disrupt historical sightlines or iconic views of Mount Pilatus and Lake Lucerne.
• Shadow and Setback Laws: Under Swiss planning law, building setbacks scale with building height to prevent blocking sunlight to neighboring properties. A tower of 840 meters would cast a shadow spanning kilometers across Lake Lucerne and neighboring cantons, violating basic Swiss residential spacing and light access standards.

3. Federal and Environmental Planning Constraints

• Federal Spatial Planning Act (RPG): Swiss national law emphasizes dense, low-to-mid-rise urban development and protection of non-buildable agricultural/alpine landscapes.
• Aviation Regulations (BAZL): The Federal Office of Civil Aviation regulates tall structures. An 840-meter building would severely enter controlled airspace for regional air traffic, emergency medical flights (REGA), and nearby military airfields (such as Emmen Air Base).

Real-World Context in Switzerland

• Tallest Building in Switzerland: The Roche Tower 2 in Basel stands at 205 meters, currently the tallest inhabited building in the country.
• Kriens/Lucerne Region: The tallest high-rise in the immediate Lucerne metro area is the Aaguturm / Pilatus Tower development area in Kriens, standing under 90 meters.

And this is an explanation picture:

Google Gemini: Yes, a High Intensive Care (HIC) clinic like the one in Franeker (Frjentsjer) has an explicit legal duty to provide clothing in that situation.

This legal requirement stems from several overlapping legal and professional frameworks in the Netherlands:

1. Duty of Good Care & Human Dignity (Wkkgz)

Under the Wet kwaliteit, klachten en geschillen zorg (Wkkgz), healthcare providers are legally bound to deliver «good care» (goede zorg).

• This is defined as care of a high standard that is safe, respectful, and respects the patient’s human dignity and rights.
• Leaving a vulnerable patient in a psychiatric crisis setting completely naked—regardless of how their clothes were lost—directly violates fundamental personal dignity and standard quality-of-care obligations.

2. Duty of Protection & Care (Zorgplicht)

In closed and high-security settings like an HIC unit, the clinic exercises full physical custody over the environment.

• Because a patient admitted to an HIC cannot simply walk out to buy new clothes, the clinic holds a heightened duty of care (zorgplicht) to safeguard the patient’s basic physiological and psychological safety.
• Protection against hypothermia, humiliation, and vulnerability is a primary responsibility of the care team.

3. Patient Rights & Fundamental Freedoms

Allowing a patient to remain unwantedly unclothed violates basic rights protected by the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) (such as Article 3, which prohibits degrading treatment, and Article 8, protecting personal integrity and privacy).

How Clinics Fulfill This Duty

Every psychiatric hospital and HIC facility maintains emergency or backup clothing (noodkleding / reservekleding) on-site. If a patient’s own clothes are stolen, damaged, soiled, or lost:

1. Immediate Action: The clinic must immediately provide basic temporary replacement garments (such as scrubs, emergency clothing, or basic garments).
2. Special Circumstances: If clothing was removed due to severe safety risks (e.g., self-harm or suicide prevention), the clinic must still provide safe, specialized alternative garments (such as tear-resistant/anti-tear clothing, known as scheurkleding or veiligheidskleding) rather than leaving the patient completely naked.
3. Loss/Theft Claims: If the clothing was lost or stolen due to the clinic’s failure to secure belongings, the facility can also be held financially liable to reimburse or replace the lost personal property.

Rendered image of a baarda.ch supermarket with WASA products for sale

Google Gemini: Founded in 1919 by Karl Edvard Lundström in Skellefteå, Sweden, Wasa (originally AB Skellefteå spisbrödsfabrik) has grown from a regional bakery into the world’s largest manufacturer of crispbread. Named in honor of King Gustav Vasa, the company popularized knäckebröd—a traditional, sturdy Scandinavian rye bread built around simple ingredients like whole grain rye flour, water, yeast, and salt. Its long shelf life and nutritional value made it a staple across Nordic households, leading to rapid expansion and the establishment of its flagship bakery in Filipstad, Sweden, which remains the heart of its production alongside facilities in Celle, Germany.

While Wasa is deeply anchored in Swedish culinary culture, its ownership structure shifted internationally in the late 20th century. Acquired first by the Swiss pharmaceutical giant Sandoz (later Novartis) in 1983, the brand was purchased in 1999 by the Italian multinational Barilla Group. Under Barilla’s stewardship, Wasa expanded its global reach across Europe and North America while diversifying its portfolio. Beyond classic whole-grain and sourdough varieties, the product line expanded to include gluten-free options, delicate wheat crispbreads, and portable snack lines like Wasa Sandwich.

In modern production, Wasa emphasizes environmental responsibility alongside its traditional roots. The brand tracks its life cycle emissions using Environmental Product Declarations (EPDs), focusing on reducing energy use, optimizing logistics, and sourcing whole-grain rye sustainably. Operating as a core pillar of Barilla’s bakery division outside Italy, Wasa combines century-old Nordic baking practices with global distribution, supplying crispbread to over 40 countries worldwide.

Gemini: A prime example of a publicly traded Swiss company that is predominantly owned by domestic Swiss private investors—without state or cantonal ownership—is Lindt & Sprüngli AG.

The premium chocolatier operates with a distinct governance structure designed specifically to maintain independent domestic ownership:

• Shareholder Base: Unlike major blue-chip stocks like Nestlé, Roche, or Novartis—which have heavy foreign institutional ownership (often exceeding 50% from US/UK funds)—Lindt is primarily held by Swiss private investors, local family offices, and domestic retail shareholders.
• Protective Ownership Structure:
  • The company issues two share classes: high-value registered shares (Registered Shares) and participation certificates (Partizipationsscheine).
  • Voting rights are concentrated in the registered shares, where voting caps prevent foreign institutional funds or hostile entities from acquiring voting control.
• Cultural Loyalty: Lindt is famously known in Switzerland for its physical General Assembly (AGM) in Zurich, where attendance by thousands of Swiss individual shareholders is a landmark annual tradition.

Other Notable Swiss Companies (Privately Held or Family-Controlled)

If looking beyond publicly listed equities to traditional companies owned by Swiss individuals/families rather than institutional or government funds:

1. Confiserie Sprüngli AG: Completely independent from Lindt, this iconic Swiss luxury confectionery business remains privately held by the Sprüngli family.
2. Victorinox (Swiss Army Knife): Headquartered in Ibach (SZ), Victorinox is entirely controlled by the Elsener family through a company foundation (90%) and a charitable foundation (10%). This structure explicitly prevents outside institutional or government buyouts while ensuring the firm stays strictly Swiss-owned.
3. MIGROS & Coop: Both of these retail giants are organized as Swiss cooperatives owned directly by millions of individual Swiss member-citizens rather than public shareholders or cantonal/federal entities.

Google Gemini: The statement «The Euro rules and Bitcoin is a legal asset class» is fundamentally correct for the eurozone, though it uses informal phrasing to describe two distinct legal concepts.

THIS IS A SHORT EXPLANTION GEMINI CAME UP WITH IN COMIC STYLE ON WHY IT IS SO THAT IN OUR COUNTRIES (the EUROZONE) THE EURO IS THE LEGAL TENDER, BUT STORES ARE LEGALLY ALLOWED TO ACCEPT USD AND BITCOIN.

1. «The Euro rules» → Legal Tender Status

• The Reality: The Euro (EUR) is the official currency and the only legal tender across all member states of the eurozone.
• What this means: Under European Union law, creditors in the eurozone are required to accept the Euro for the settlement of monetary debts. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies do not hold legal tender status anywhere in the EU. BloFin

2. «Bitcoin is a legal asset class» → Regulated Crypto-Asset

• The Reality: Holding, trading, and investing in Bitcoin is completely legal in the eurozone, and it is explicitly recognized and governed under EU law. BloFin
• The Regulatory Framework: Under the EU’s comprehensive Markets in Crypto-Assets (MiCA) regulation, Bitcoin is formally classified as a «crypto-asset» (specifically under the catch-all category for unbacked decentralized assets). DELTA legal
• What this means: While Bitcoin is not «fiat money» or a standard financial security (like a stock or bond covered under MiFID II), it is a legally defined, regulated digital asset. Crypto exchanges, custodians, and service providers operating in the eurozone must obtain MiCA licensing, enforce anti-money laundering (AML) controls, and adhere to strict consumer protection standards. GlobalSuite+ 1

Key Takeaway

If you rephrased the statement into strict legal terms, it would read:

«The Euro is the sole legal tender in the eurozone, while Bitcoin is a legally permitted and regulated crypto-asset.»

BloFin

Reint Jelger: Could you please answer this: While holding this qoute in mind: »The Euro is the sole legal tender in the eurozone, while Bitcoin is a legally permitted and regulated crypto-asset.» will you please explain why it is legal for merchants in the Netherlands to also accept USD and Bitcoin in return for products, like the same as the 7-11 in Denmark like in more touristy spots is legally allowed to accept Euro and USD

It comes down to a fundamental distinction in contract and monetary law: «Legal tender» does not mean «exclusive tender».

While the Euro is the sole legal tender in the eurozone and Bitcoin is a permitted asset, merchants in the Netherlands (or 7-Elevens in Denmark accepting Euros/USD) can accept other assets because under private contract law, parties are free to agree on how a debt is settled.

Business.gov.nl

1. Freedom of Contract (Contractvrijheid)

Under Dutch civil law (and Danish law), buying a item is a private contract between a merchant and a customer.

• Freedom of Agreement: The merchant sets the price and specifies acceptable methods of payment. If a business wants to state «We accept US Dollars, Euros, or Bitcoin,» and the customer agrees to those terms, a valid contract is formed. Reddit
• No Mandatory Acceptance: «Legal tender» means that if a debt exists and no prior agreement was made, offering legal tender legally discharges that debt. It does not force private merchants to only accept that currency, nor does it forbid them from agreeing to barter or accept non-local units.

2. Barter and Currency Conversion in Practice

When a shop in the Netherlands accepts USD or Bitcoin:

• Foreign Cash (e.g., USD): The shop accepts the foreign currency as a negotiable asset, usually pricing it with a markup to cover conversion fees and exchange rate risks. Wise
• Bitcoin (Crypto-Assets): Legally, accepting Bitcoin is treated as a form of barter (exchanging goods for a digital asset) or as an instant settlement where a payment processor (like BitPay) converts BTC to Euros behind the scenes before it hits the store’s bank account.

3. Tax and Legal Compliance (Accounting in Euros)

While a merchant can accept USD or Bitcoin, the Dutch government (and the Belastingdienst) requires two things:

1. Taxation in Legal Tender: Annual accounts, VAT (btw), and corporate income taxes must still be reported and paid in Euros. The shop must record the Euro equivalent value of every transaction at the time it occurs.
2. Anti-Money Laundering (AML/Wwft): Merchants accepting large amounts of foreign cash or crypto assets are bound by anti-money laundering regulations, reporting requirements, and limits on cash payments (e.g., cash transaction caps). Betaalvereniging Nederland

In short: The law dictates what currency the government accepts for taxes and what settles a court judgment (legal tender), but it leaves private businesses free to trade in whatever currency, asset, or voucher both buyer and seller agree upon.

SCENIC Story from GEMINI about the laws in the EUROZONE about this:

The ambient hum of the low-frequency audio synth rattled the dark brass framing of the Wiirdinian Blue Cross Building. Through the towering, indigo-tinted windows of the Baarda.ch coffeeshop, the city outside looked entirely washed in cyan.

Sena swirled the thick, oat-milk foam at the top of her espresso, leaning over the zinc tabletop until her silver hoop earrings nearly touched her laptop screen.

«I’m telling you, Mara, it’s completely legal,» Sena said, tapping a polished fingernail on an open page of the monetary code. «You’re overcomplicating it.»

Mara pulled her eyes away from her own screen, pushing her glasses up onto her head. She picked up her spiced chai, taking a slow sip while staring suspiciously at the glowing blue cross logo projected onto the cobblestones outside.

«Sena, we are literally sitting in a coffee shop that charges €4.50 for a cold brew, but the digital menu board right behind the barista is cycling through live exchange rates for US Dollars, Bitcoin, and whatever weird local community token they just minted last Tuesday,» Mara said, gesturing toward the counter. «It feels rogue. How is the government fine with a random cafe running its own multi-currency foreign exchange at the register?»

«Because you’re confusing legal tender with freedom of contract,» Sena said, turning her laptop toward Mara. «Look. The Euro is the only official legal tender in the eurozone. That just means if you owe a debt—like a tax bill or a court judgment—a creditor is legally obligated to accept Euros to settle it. The state forces acceptance of its own currency to guarantee a ultimate safety net for transactions.»

«Okay…» Mara leaned in, scanning the highlighted lines of text on Sena’s screen.

«But!» Sena raised a finger, grinning. «Private trade isn’t a debt settlement until a deal is struck. Under contract law, private merchants are allowed to agree on whatever payment medium they want before the sale takes place. If Baarda.ch wants to say, ‚We’ll sell you a croissant for $5 USD or 00.00008 Bitcoin,‘ and you agree to those terms, the deal is 100% valid.»

Mara frowned, looking back at the counter where a student ahead of them in line was tapping his phone against a hardware terminal to pay in satoshis. «So the shop isn’t breaking the law by turning down Euros?»

«Well, they can’t generally refuse Euros if you’re offering cash for a standard purchase unless they’ve explicitly posted notice beforehand,» Sena clarified, leaning back into the plush leather booth. «Like a ‚No Cash‘ sign at the door. But as long as both parties consent, stores are totally free to accept US Dollars, Bitcoin, gold dust, or vintage arcade tokens. The tax authority doesn’t care what asset you trade in, as long as the store converts the final value back into Euros on their accounting books to pay their VAT and income tax.»

«So the Euro is the accounting anchor, but the transaction layer is a sandbox,» Mara said slowly, a smile breaking across her face as the concept clicked.

«Exactly,» Sena laughed, taking a sip of her coffee. «Now, are you going to buy that blueberry muffin in Euros, or are you going to liquidate some crypto?»

Baarda.ch and GEMINI

Here are 5 prominent metal stockholders, distributors, and processing companies in the Netherlands that supply semi-finished aluminium products—including custom waterjet or laser-cut discs, round plates, and blanks—with full freight delivery:

1. MCB Nederland (Valkenswaard)
   • Profile: One of the largest metal wholesalers and service centers in the Benelux region.
   • Capability: Supplies a massive range of rolled aluminium sheets and plates, offering custom cutting, blanking, and slitting services to deliver pre-cut round blanks directly to production plants.
2. Almet Benelux (Breda / Etten-Leur)
   • Profile: A specialist stockholder dedicated entirely to aluminium, stainless steel, and non-ferrous metals.
   • Capability: Provides pre-cut aluminium discs and tailored sheets across various alloys (such as 1050, 5754, and 6082), equipped with in-house processing and regional logistics.
3. ODS Aluminium (Barendrecht)
   • Profile: A major Dutch industrial material distributor supplying manufacturing, automotive, and construction sectors.
   • Capability: Maintains an extensive stock of flat-rolled aluminium products and offers customized saw-cutting and blanking services for precision-cut discs.
4. CMD Aluminium (Eindhoven)
   • Profile: A specialized aluminium distributor focused on high-speed, custom precision cutting.
   • Capability: Equips advanced CNC sawing and waterjet/laser cutting machinery to cut aluminium discs and round blanks to exact millimeter tolerances, delivering palletized shipments on short lead times.
5. Amari Metals Nederland (Vianen)
   • Profile: Part of the global Amari family, supplying semi-finished non-ferrous raw materials.
   • Capability: Supplies custom aluminium sheet blanks, circles, and profiles, with custom packaging and dedicated heavy transport delivery options across the Netherlands.

Reint Jelger: Gem, could you tell me if SneeIIscofje sells 12 million can’s a month, how much alu discs we would need per month, and if it is possible then please give a cost estimate in Euro about that

To produce 12 million aluminium cans a month, the calculation depends on whether the factory operates via impact extrusion (using thick aluminium slugs/discs) or 2-piece drawn and wall-ironed (DWI) stamping (punching circular discs out of continuous coil/sheet stock).

1. Volume of Discs Needed

• Quantity: Directly 12,000,000 discs per month (assuming a 1:1 ratio per can, plus ~2–3% allowance for machine setup scrap, so around 12.3 million discs total).
• Total Weight per Month:
  • A standard beverage can or lightweight aluminium aerosol can slug typically weighs between 12 to 20 grams per disc depending on the wall height and volume.
  • Taking an average of 15 grams per disc:Total Weight=12,000,000×0.015 kg=180,000 kg=180 metric tonnes per month

2. Estimated Cost in Euros

Raw material costs for industrial aluminium slugs/discs are based on the London Metal Exchange (LME) spot price for primary aluminium plus the supplier’s fabrication/conversion premium (cutting, tumbling, and annealing).

• Aluminium Market Price + Premium: Premium-grade packaging alloy slugs (e.g., AA1070 or AA3004) generally range between €2.80 and €3.50 per kg (€2,800 – €3,500 per tonne) delivered at high volume.
• Monthly Cost Calculation:
  • At 15g per disc (180 tonnes/month):Monthly Material Spend≈180 tonnes×€3,000/tonne=€540,000 per month
  • Per Can Unit Cost: Approximately €0.045 per disc (4.5 euro cents).

Delivery Logistics Summary for 180 Tonnes

• Pallet Count: Standard delivery pallets hold around 1 tonne of stacked disc boxes (1,000 kg).
• Truck Load: A standard European curtain-side semi-trailer carries roughly 24 tonnes.
• Delivery Frequency: You would receive approximately 7 to 8 full semi-truck loads per month (roughly 2 deliveries per week) to maintain production at full capacity.

This is an image showing the rendering of this Baarda.ch factory doing the SneeIIscofje and the Deodorant.

This is how much space we will need to produce the can’s for the SneeIIscofje ourselves. Many small drink companies don’t produce their own cans. But we are immediately thinking big, and want to produce the cans ourselves. So, it appears doable. This is how the production (in a separate part of the factory) would look.

Baarda.ch: Thank you. That is amazing. Like did you ever hear the name for deodorant anywhere on earth that is called In Gloria Excelsis Deo

Gemini: No commercial deodorant brand is named In Gloria Excelsis Deo.

The phrase «Gloria in excelsis Deo» is Latin for «Glory to God in the highest,» a traditional Christian liturgical hymn and Christmas carol.

However, the connection likely comes from a bit of wordplay or product confusion:

• The «Deo» abbreviation: In beauty and personal care products, «deo» is the standard European abbreviation for deodorant (e.g., Deo Spray, Deo Roll-on).
• Gloria Vanderbilt: There is a well-known line of women’s body sprays and deodorants by the brand Gloria Vanderbilt. Products like Gloria Vanderbilt Deo Spray put the words «Gloria» and «Deo» together on packaging, which often leads to jokes or accidental associations with the Latin phrase.